Where do you hail from, Dear Haldir?

Zhie

In answer to questions posed upon the Haldir Lovers yahoo!group.

November 15, 2003

Message 23073

Regardless of my ideas presented in the fanfictional world, from the information I've digested in the supplemental Tolkien books (History of Middle Earth stuff, various dictionaries and encyclopedias by different authors), my conclusion thus far is that Haldir, and his brothers Orophin and Rumil, are the sons of Orodreth. Orodreth would have been the (second?) son of Finarfin, and also brother to Galadriel.

This theory I came up with from information, and I don't remember which exact it was as I am at work and no where near the books right now, from one of the Middle Earth histories, either the 4th or the 5th one. Somewhere in the appendix of one of them or in a glossary of names or something, it mentions something about Orodreth, and in parenthesis (sp?) it says (father of Haldir).

Now, I know there were other Haldirs around, not to mention another Orodreth, but I went through those, and it didn't seem likely that the connection was with any of them. There are some sources that link this Haldir (the son of Orodreth) as the one who apparently was captured by orcs and hung in a tree. Not a happy way to go. But there's two more things to consider: First, elves could theoretically be reborn, and second, Tolkien never really seemed absolutely sure about anything, and often contradicted himself. So, again, and this is going to be a stretch, but go with me on this here...

If Haldir, son of Orodreth, is the same one in Lothlorien, then let's just say he was killed by orcs in F. A. 488. Orodreth doesn't get killed until F. A. 495. Now, even though elves who are reborn don't necessarily have to be reborn by the same parents (more theory), let's say in this case, Haldir was. Considering the poor elf wouldn't have been very old at the time, and further hoping that he isn't kept in the halls of waiting for very long at all, that gives Orodreth about seven years with Mrs. Orodreth to bring Haldir back into the happy Middle Earth fray. I told you it was going to be a big stretch. Improbable, but not impossible.

Further supporting the theory: It seems that quite often, the first born child of elves gets a chunk of one of the parent's names, usually the father's name, as part of their own.

Examples:

Celeborn's daughter Celebrian

Finarfin's son Finrod

Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir

Taking this into consideration, and the fact that the prefix of Oro- (from orod, apparently) doesn't seem too extensively used in elvish names (not as infrequent as Hal-, nor as well used as El-), there's a good chance that if Orodreth was the father of the Lorien brothers, that the first born son was Orophin. After Orophin, the order is a bit vague. However, it would appear from Haldir's actions (and I'm only going by what's in the book, not the movies), that he probably wasn't the youngest of the three.

If in fact Haldir was reborn from the one who the orcs hung, then this could factor why he is the sort of leader of the three brothers even if Orophin is the eldest: Elves who come back from the halls tend to be better in some ways than when they went in. Again, more theories.

So, what we have so far is...

1. Sons of Orodreth

2. Born in the following order: Orophin; Haldir; Rumil

But Orodreth had another child: Finduilas. Where she might figure into the family order, who can say, but she was almost certainly born during the First Age. She came to a very unpleasant end, and was carried off and slain by orcs at the end of the sack of Nargothrond.

So, if anyone is still with me at this point, let's further wonder, what were the sons of Orodreth doing in Lothlorien? Well, first of all, if they were said elf's sons, that means Galadriel would have been their aunt. Not a bad connection to have. She likely would have been more than happy to find them employment in Lothlorien. The three of them would have been almost definitely born in the First Age, and probably didn't have anything to do with the whole kinslaying business.

To keep myself from sounding redundant on anything, and so that this doesn't turn into a ten page essay, I think I'm going to stop here. I hope someone gets some enjoyment or insight or something out of this. And the theory is always changing as I continue to read more, so I can't guarantee the same theory tomorrow. Thanks for reading.

Addition on November 15, 2003

Regarding Jackson's movie version of Haldir and Helm's Deep

Message 23119

I was actually having a conversation with the husband about this as we were parking the car this evening. When we got to the hanging part, his addition on this was that compared to what orcs would normally have done, eg, just hack and slash, or shoot with a cross bow or something, it would most definately not have been a warrior's death. Presuming the son of Orodreth Haldir is later Haldir of Lorien, if he was some warrior or something, it would have made sense for the orcs to want to cause further shame to him and his family. That, coupled with your idea, Char, about the torture *shudders*, might have given the Valar the idea to send him back right away. Just more theories to something which likely has a far simpler answer than any I could invent. Which makes one wonder, what sort of bad stuff did Glorfindel do that he had to answer for with the Valar when he got sent to Mandos? I mean, he spent an awful lot of time there, and maybe it's just the cough medicine talking, but...